Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (2024)

T-Town Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (1)
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Post: #41

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-24-2016 10:01 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:
(01-24-2016 09:27 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote: Coach C has the next Naama coming in next season.
The men's team will have a shoot again next season at winning it all. Sanford, Navigato and Rodgers will all be way better next year Adaway and Knapke will be strong contributors next year as well. Look how much better Stuckey, Jon Jon and Garber are this year than they were last year the Northern and Central Point guards are seniors and we will have Steve Taylor playing as well. I expected this to be an up and down year if you didn't you are delusional.

Hope you are right and I agree the potential seems to be there, but as everyone who follows the Rockets should have learned by now, potential is not always realized.

While Jon Jon is a mixed blessing, I have to believe he and Booth will be missed. As for Taylor, I remember how the board was alive with chatter after the WMU disappointment in Cleveland about how that transfer from Mississippi State was going to fill the gap left by Pearson and I also remember how that turned out. So while I agree that there is the potential to possibly vie for a championship next year, and I going to have to wait and see it before I get too excited about it.

(This post was last modified: 01-24-2016 10:29 PM by T-Town.)

01-24-2016 10:27 PM
H2Oville Rocket Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (5)
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Post: #42

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-24-2016 10:27 PM)T-Town Wrote:
(01-24-2016 10:01 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:
(01-24-2016 09:27 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote: Coach C has the next Naama coming in next season.
The men's team will have a shoot again next season at winning it all. Sanford, Navigato and Rodgers will all be way better next year Adaway and Knapke will be strong contributors next year as well. Look how much better Stuckey, Jon Jon and Garber are this year than they were last year the Northern and Central Point guards are seniors and we will have Steve Taylor playing as well. I expected this to be an up and down year if you didn't you are delusional.

Hope you are right and I agree the potential seems to be there, but as everyone who follows the Rockets should have learned by now, potential is not always realized.

While Jon Jon is a mixed blessing, I have to believe he and Booth will be missed. As for Taylor, I remember how the board was alive with chatter after the WMU disappointment in Cleveland about how that transfer from Mississippi State was going to fill the gap left by Pearson and I also remember how that turned out. So while I agree that there is the potential to possibly vie for a championship next year, and I going to have to wait and see it before I get too excited about it.

I hope Jon Jon is not missed next year. I fully expect a big senior season from him.

01-24-2016 10:32 PM
T-Town Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (10)
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Post: #43

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-24-2016 09:27 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote: Coach C has the next Naama coming in next season.

Good, the team will need a good point guard next year, but so far as being the "next Naama", that is a pretty tall order and only time will tell.

(This post was last modified: 01-24-2016 10:53 PM by T-Town.)

01-24-2016 10:49 PM
Dwight Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (14)
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Post: #44

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?

It's funny how the freshmen and the incoming recruits are always going to be world-beaters. I guess that's part of being a fan - being optimistic that the next star player and the next championship are just around the corner. On the women's side, the foreign recruits seem hard to judge ahead of time. De Alfredo, for example, played above her age group for a very good Spanish national team, but she contributed nothing at UT. So I agree with T-Town that we have to reserve judgment regarding "the next Naama." Now if you told me that she turned down scholarship offers from Connecticut and Notre Dame to sign with UT, then I'd start getting excited.

On the men's side, this year's freshman class still has a lot to prove. Sanford looks like he'll be a player, but to me the jury is still out on all of the others. It was inevitable that freshmen would get playing time this year since we only returned five players. Just because they're playing doesn't mean that they will lead us to a championship in the next 2-3 years.

01-24-2016 11:01 PM
T-Town Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (18)
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Post: #45

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-24-2016 10:32 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:
(01-24-2016 10:27 PM)T-Town Wrote:
(01-24-2016 10:01 PM)rocketpaul Wrote:
(01-24-2016 09:27 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote: Coach C has the next Naama coming in next season.
The men's team will have a shoot again next season at winning it all. Sanford, Navigato and Rodgers will all be way better next year Adaway and Knapke will be strong contributors next year as well. Look how much better Stuckey, Jon Jon and Garber are this year than they were last year the Northern and Central Point guards are seniors and we will have Steve Taylor playing as well. I expected this to be an up and down year if you didn't you are delusional.

Hope you are right and I agree the potential seems to be there, but as everyone who follows the Rockets should have learned by now, potential is not always realized.

While Jon Jon is a mixed blessing, I have to believe he and Booth will be missed. As for Taylor, I remember how the board was alive with chatter after the WMU disappointment in Cleveland about how that transfer from Mississippi State was going to fill the gap left by Pearson and I also remember how that turned out. So while I agree that there is the potential to possibly vie for a championship next year, and I going to have to wait and see it before I get too excited about it.


I hope Jon Jon is not missed next year. I fully expect a big senior season from him.

My bad----loosing Booth is big, but maybe if with the experience gained this year the young players can be a force to be reckoned with next year----still going to want to see it before I totally buy into it.

Actually with the current league parity, there are a number of teams including the Rockets who could possibly win out in Cleveland so, although the odds are not favorable, they still have a (very) long shot this season.

01-24-2016 11:07 PM
Boca Rocket Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (22)
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Post: #46

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-24-2016 11:01 PM)Dwight Wrote: It's funny how the freshmen and the incoming recruits are always going to be world-beaters. I guess that's part of being a fan - being optimistic that the next star player and the next championship are just around the corner. On the women's side, the foreign recruits seem hard to judge ahead of time. De Alfredo, for example, played above her age group for a very good Spanish national team, but she contributed nothing at UT. So I agree with T-Town that we have to reserve judgment regarding "the next Naama." Now if you told me that she turned down scholarship offers from Connecticut and Notre Dame to sign with UT, then I'd start getting excited.

On the men's side, this year's freshman class still has a lot to prove. Sanford looks like he'll be a player, but to me the jury is still out on all of the others. It was inevitable that freshmen would get playing time this year since we only returned five players. Just because they're playing doesn't mean that they will lead us to a championship in the next 2-3 years.

Still a very good Freshman Class.

01-25-2016 10:39 AM
DetroitRocket Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (27)
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Post: #47

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-24-2016 03:55 PM)T-Town Wrote:
(01-24-2016 02:50 PM)FMRocket Wrote:
(01-24-2016 02:44 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:
(01-24-2016 11:51 AM)FMRocket Wrote: To a degree, yes !!
Cullop & K will probably have a 2 year window to rectify things ( meaning at least a divisional title ). After that, I believe MOB will take a long hard look at making changes...
Granted, both coaches have represented the University of Toledo well, but at some point in time, a MAC championship on the horizon should be in order...

Even if both MBB & WBB go .500 the next 2-3 seasons, there is no way in hell that MOB will fire either of them. Zero chance.

So .500 is the new standard for Toledo, and deemed to be acceptable by our AD ??
That way of thinking eventually will not sit well with longtime boosters/fans !!

I hate to say it, but I am not even sure that this is a NEW standard of acceptance by either the AD or by many (most?) of the UT fan base themselves. A lot of fans seem totally satisfied with a 20 win season now and then and hanging another NIT (or WNIT) banner from the rafters. I think that for many (most?) their expectations have been slowly but progressively lowered over the years by the very absence of any success at reaching the NCAA. Really, how many people on this board were even alive that last time the men played in the NCAA?

I think Al Bohl was probably the last AD who set the bar higher----namely every year he expected the revenue sports to be competing for a league championship----and sometimes winning it ----these were his stated EXPECTATIONS which are somewhat more forceful than calling winning the championship a mere goal (which carries no consequences if it is never achieved). As to the fan base expectations, if you think back on it a bit, there were a lot of Rocket fans pretty upset with Al Bohl when he canned Dan Simrell and hired Nick Saban.

The very fact that the men's program has gone 35 years without a trip to the NCAA would seem to suggest that, with the possible exception of Al Bohl, there hasn't been much real sense of urgency about winning championships for quite some time as expectations have gradually been eroded over time.

Although its not an important sport to most, the fact that MOB hasn't fired the volleyball coach who is 7-51 the last two seasons might say something.
And for the poster that expected the basketball players to be better next year, that doesn't always happen. The list is too long to type out.

01-25-2016 11:08 AM
UTNORTH Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (31)
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Post: #48

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?

Every mid-major is one bad recruiting class away from mediocrity and one great recruiting class away from March Madness.

01-25-2016 01:46 PM
Rocketand2nuts Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (35)
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Post: #49

Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-24-2016 05:46 PM)T-Town Wrote:
(01-24-2016 04:48 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: .....So to say the expectation, year in and year out, is to make the NCAA tourny is asinine. To fire a coach who is averaging 20+ wins the last 4 seasons because he hasn't yet made the NCAA tourny is not smart. It's not like we've going to the NCAAT all the time to begin with.

You are the only one I have seen claiming people at UT expect their coach to make the NCAA Tournament year in and year out-----after all this Toledo, not a P5 school or not Cincinnati or any school like that. There is a BIG difference from being competitive for the Tourney title every year and winning it every year----if you need an example, think NIU football.

If I am mistaken about this, please direct me to the specific text that proves me wrong.

If we don't expect an NCAA appearance every year, we should get rid of the Bball program. Period. You play for championships, you hire for championships, you fire for lack of championships, you EXPECT championships. Every sport, every level, every year.

01-25-2016 08:18 PM
MidnightBlueGold Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (39)
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Post: #50

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-25-2016 08:18 PM)Rocketand2nuts Wrote:
(01-24-2016 05:46 PM)T-Town Wrote:
(01-24-2016 04:48 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: .....So to say the expectation, year in and year out, is to make the NCAA tourny is asinine. To fire a coach who is averaging 20+ wins the last 4 seasons because he hasn't yet made the NCAA tourny is not smart. It's not like we've going to the NCAAT all the time to begin with.

You are the only one I have seen claiming people at UT expect their coach to make the NCAA Tournament year in and year out-----after all this Toledo, not a P5 school or not Cincinnati or any school like that. There is a BIG difference from being competitive for the Tourney title every year and winning it every year----if you need an example, think NIU football.

If I am mistaken about this, please direct me to the specific text that proves me wrong.


If we don't expect an NCAA appearance every year, we should get rid of the Bball program. Period. You play for championships, you hire for championships, you fire for lack of championships, you EXPECT championships. Every sport, every level, every year.

Do I 'expect' an NCAA appearance every year? Yes. Do I EXPECT an NCAA appearance every year? No. I'm a realistic fan. Not a homer who sees everything through midnight blue glasses.

01-25-2016 08:55 PM
Dwight Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (44)
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Post: #51

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-25-2016 08:18 PM)Rocketand2nuts Wrote:
(01-24-2016 05:46 PM)T-Town Wrote:
(01-24-2016 04:48 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: .....So to say the expectation, year in and year out, is to make the NCAA tourny is asinine. To fire a coach who is averaging 20+ wins the last 4 seasons because he hasn't yet made the NCAA tourny is not smart. It's not like we've going to the NCAAT all the time to begin with.

You are the only one I have seen claiming people at UT expect their coach to make the NCAA Tournament year in and year out-----after all this Toledo, not a P5 school or not Cincinnati or any school like that. There is a BIG difference from being competitive for the Tourney title every year and winning it every year----if you need an example, think NIU football.

If I am mistaken about this, please direct me to the specific text that proves me wrong.


If we don't expect an NCAA appearance every year, we should get rid of the Bball program. Period. You play for championships, you hire for championships, you fire for lack of championships, you EXPECT championships. Every sport, every level, every year.

But of course that doesn't mean you fire your coach every year that the team doesn't make an NCAA appearance. That would be ridiculous. No qualified coach would take the job once we built that reputation. (Not saying you were suggesting that, but this thread is about whether the coaches should go.)

01-25-2016 09:55 PM
eastisbest Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (48)
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Post: #52

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-25-2016 09:55 PM)Dwight Wrote:
(01-25-2016 08:18 PM)Rocketand2nuts Wrote:
(01-24-2016 05:46 PM)T-Town Wrote:
(01-24-2016 04:48 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: .....So to say the expectation, year in and year out, is to make the NCAA tourny is asinine. To fire a coach who is averaging 20+ wins the last 4 seasons because he hasn't yet made the NCAA tourny is not smart. It's not like we've going to the NCAAT all the time to begin with.

You are the only one I have seen claiming people at UT expect their coach to make the NCAA Tournament year in and year out-----after all this Toledo, not a P5 school or not Cincinnati or any school like that. There is a BIG difference from being competitive for the Tourney title every year and winning it every year----if you need an example, think NIU football.

If I am mistaken about this, please direct me to the specific text that proves me wrong.


If we don't expect an NCAA appearance every year, we should get rid of the Bball program. Period. You play for championships, you hire for championships, you fire for lack of championships, you EXPECT championships. Every sport, every level, every year.

But of course that doesn't mean you fire your coach every year that the team doesn't make an NCAA appearance. That would be ridiculous. No qualified coach would take the job once we built that reputation. (Not saying you were suggesting that, but this thread is about whether the coaches should go.)

I think it's about whether or not they've maxed out, hit their peak.

01-25-2016 10:11 PM
pono Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (52)
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Post: #53

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?

not sure if it's a recruiting quirk or what, but coach k has offered some pretty highly rated recruits in the 2017 class. it's a year when we have 3 scholarships open, so nothing unusual there, but he has offered a bunch of 3 and even some 4 star recruits. in some cases going against a bunch of other solid mid majors, but in others against big 10, acc, big 12, xavier, etc... for recruits. sometimes, what happens is a mid major gets in on a kid early but then as they mature the big name schools swoop in. however, coach k has been offering some highly rated recruits who already had good offers on the table.

01-26-2016 04:47 AM
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Post: #54

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?

Just remember, it took John Wooden 16 years at UCLA before he won his first NCAA championship in 1964. They then won 9 more championships in the next 11 seasons. As Wooden explained, it took us a while to get it right, but when we did - we really had it right. (or words to that effect). Of course they won conference championships almost immediately after he arrived.

Not saying Cullop or K will have anywhere near that success - even if it was just talking about MAC championships - but the real question is whether they are continually improving or not. I guess I don't see it. Just no consistency and it's not like they are being held at bay by a dominating team in the conference.

01-26-2016 07:49 AM
Boca Rocket Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (62)
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Post: #55

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-26-2016 07:49 AM)MotoRocket Wrote: Just remember, it took John Wooden 16 years at UCLA before he won his first NCAA championship in 1964. They then won 9 more championships in the next 11 seasons. As Wooden explained, it took us a while to get it right, but when we did - we really had it right. (or words to that effect). Of course they won conference championships almost immediately after he arrived.

Not saying Cullop or K will have anywhere near that success - even if it was just talking about MAC championships - but the real question is whether they are continually improving or not. I guess I don't see it. Just no consistency and it's not like they are being held at bay by a dominating team in the conference.

It's a process!

01-26-2016 07:54 AM
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Post: #56

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-26-2016 07:54 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:
(01-26-2016 07:49 AM)MotoRocket Wrote: Just remember, it took John Wooden 16 years at UCLA before he won his first NCAA championship in 1964. They then won 9 more championships in the next 11 seasons. As Wooden explained, it took us a while to get it right, but when we did - we really had it right. (or words to that effect). Of course they won conference championships almost immediately after he arrived.

Not saying Cullop or K will have anywhere near that success - even if it was just talking about MAC championships - but the real question is whether they are continually improving or not. I guess I don't see it. Just no consistency and it's not like they are being held at bay by a dominating team in the conference.


It's a process!

lol - I just heard someone (Kam Newton??) talking about "the process" after one of the games over the weekend.

01-26-2016 08:02 AM
DetroitRocket Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (72)
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Post: #57

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-26-2016 08:02 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:
(01-26-2016 07:54 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:
(01-26-2016 07:49 AM)MotoRocket Wrote: Just remember, it took John Wooden 16 years at UCLA before he won his first NCAA championship in 1964. They then won 9 more championships in the next 11 seasons. As Wooden explained, it took us a while to get it right, but when we did - we really had it right. (or words to that effect). Of course they won conference championships almost immediately after he arrived.

Not saying Cullop or K will have anywhere near that success - even if it was just talking about MAC championships - but the real question is whether they are continually improving or not. I guess I don't see it. Just no consistency and it's not like they are being held at bay by a dominating team in the conference.


It's a process!

lol - I just heard someone (Kam Newton??) talking about "the process" after one of the games over the weekend.

1. Every coach talks about the process now. Just a buzz word. Campbell certainly didn't make it up.

2. Coach K has never signed a 3 star player. He also keeps offering kids from his home area of Wisconsin and Minnesota, but could never get one to sign.

3. When you think about the outdated 60's arenas that Kent and Akron have, we should be able to dominate those schools in men's recruiting, but they keep going to the NCAA's. Maybe it's the coaches?

01-26-2016 10:35 AM
Terry Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (76)
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Post: #58

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?
(01-26-2016 10:35 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:
(01-26-2016 08:02 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:
(01-26-2016 07:54 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:
(01-26-2016 07:49 AM)MotoRocket Wrote: Just remember, it took John Wooden 16 years at UCLA before he won his first NCAA championship in 1964. They then won 9 more championships in the next 11 seasons. As Wooden explained, it took us a while to get it right, but when we did - we really had it right. (or words to that effect). Of course they won conference championships almost immediately after he arrived.

Not saying Cullop or K will have anywhere near that success - even if it was just talking about MAC championships - but the real question is whether they are continually improving or not. I guess I don't see it. Just no consistency and it's not like they are being held at bay by a dominating team in the conference.


It's a process!

lol - I just heard someone (Kam Newton??) talking about "the process" after one of the games over the weekend.

1. Every coach talks about the process now. Just a buzz word. Campbell certainly didn't make it up.

2. Coach K has never signed a 3 star player. He also keeps offering kids from his home area of Wisconsin and Minnesota, but could never get one to sign.

3. When you think about the outdated 60's arenas that Kent and Akron have, we should be able to dominate those schools in men's recruiting, but they keep going to the NCAA's. Maybe it's the coaches?

He get's them from Chicago, Illinois and Indiana instead.....

01-26-2016 01:07 PM
rocket 51 Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (80)
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Post: #59

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?

After tonights loss to OU I think MBB is Maxed out. Agree with the other post about Kent and Akron and their facilities. Move on to something better IMO.

01-26-2016 11:26 PM
rockytop Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out? (84)
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Post: #60

RE: Have Cullop And Kowalczyk Maxed Out?

Coach K is maxed out. Top tier MAC facilities, middling coaches.

(This post was last modified: 01-26-2016 11:51 PM by rockytop.)

01-26-2016 11:49 PM
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